|
Covid
Mar 24, 2020 12:49:41 GMT
Post by Griffo on Mar 24, 2020 12:49:41 GMT
cheers Rutland, trouble is that dismisses my theory that Legionnaires disease started somewhere in north africa with the french
|
|
|
Covid
Mar 24, 2020 12:55:36 GMT
Post by Griffo on Mar 24, 2020 12:55:36 GMT
most people believe 'peoplethinkthatGreenoisfunny' disease was passed on by Greeno
|
|
|
Covid
Mar 24, 2020 13:26:51 GMT
Post by greeno on Mar 24, 2020 13:26:51 GMT
most people believe 'peoplethinkthatGreenoisfunny' disease was passed on by Greeno It's clearly not contagious Griffo.
|
|
|
Covid
Mar 24, 2020 13:34:12 GMT
Post by flathatter on Mar 24, 2020 13:34:12 GMT
most people believe 'peoplethinkthatGreenoisfunny' disease was passed on by Greeno It's clearly not contagious Griffo.
|
|
|
Covid
Mar 24, 2020 14:48:43 GMT
Post by Griffo on Mar 24, 2020 14:48:43 GMT
pass it on!!!!
|
|
|
Covid
Mar 24, 2020 14:58:39 GMT
Post by greeno on Mar 24, 2020 14:58:39 GMT
|
|
|
Covid
Mar 25, 2020 9:33:54 GMT
Post by Lake on Mar 25, 2020 9:33:54 GMT
|
|
|
Covid
Mar 29, 2020 12:38:19 GMT
Post by Wimbo on Mar 29, 2020 12:38:19 GMT
|
|
|
Covid
Mar 29, 2020 13:49:43 GMT
Post by proudhattersince74 on Mar 29, 2020 13:49:43 GMT
Good article, Wimbo, and mirrors what a consultant fiend of mine has been saying. As he told me, Germany's recording of fatalities to other attributable illnesses meant they had very few CV19 deaths whilst the rest of Europe saw surges in their respective death rates. Germany have now changed their recording data to fall in line with others and, as a consequence, have started to mirror the incline seen in the other countries.
One thing that I haven't seen theorised anywhere is about the Latin countries and their family units. Italy, Spain and Portugal (add Greece to that) have very strong family units where the older generations are well cared for by the younger generations - so much so that it isn't uncommon for three generation of the same family to live in the same household. Whilst this family care allows for the eldest generation to live longer under normal circumstances, the lockdowns in those environments cannot be healthy for the elders. Otherwise, why would Italy and Spain still be experiencing such high death rates whilst in enforced lockdowns?
I've seen a lot of criticism aimed at the UK Government's timing of our own lockdown with many claiming that it was too late and too lax (with building trades still able to operate as long as social distancing protocols are observed). However, until we come out of the other end of this horrible virus there is no proof whatsoever that a lockdown is even the answer, especially if the figures are skewed as suggested in that article. The one thing that the lockdown should achieve is that the NHS won't be as completely overwhelmed if the spread is slowed down vs letting it infect the nation as quickly as possible to improve immunity (where a vaccine is unavailable)
In no way am I trying to belittle the dangers of this virus and vulnerable groups should still isolate themselves but should everybody isolate? My wife is convinced she had this virus a few weeks ago and, as information wasn't thrust at everyone from every angle at that time, dismissed it as a 2-3 day infection and still went to work. Discussing this with my consultant friend, he reckoned that many thousands more have already had it without knowing and no longer need to be isolated (except from the vulnerable groups, of course).
The other unknown is whether warmer weather will help prevent the spread - if Spring weather takes off and temperatures rise we may not see CV19 being quite as harmful as seen in other countries as it hit them during late winter. That rationale seems to be something that America is hoping for: that CV19 reacts in the same way as normal flu in that it thrives in colder environments and diminishes in warmer climates.
Stay safe everyone.
|
|
|
Covid
Mar 29, 2020 14:53:18 GMT
Post by shatter2 on Mar 29, 2020 14:53:18 GMT
Proud the countries who look after their elderly relatives is a very good point. We tend to let other people look after our older relatives, in care homes etc. When flu or noroviris enter these care homes the death rate is usually very high.My mother in law died 3 years ago when a bug went round her care home, I didn't get the figures but many others died in the same place.
As you say stay safe folks.
|
|
|
Covid
Mar 30, 2020 8:10:13 GMT
Post by maggiechow on Mar 30, 2020 8:10:13 GMT
Some very interesting points.
Stay safe, everyone.
|
|
|
Covid
Mar 30, 2020 13:39:09 GMT
Post by rutlandhatter on Mar 30, 2020 13:39:09 GMT
These are interesting points but we need to remember that the primary point of the lockdown is to stop the NHS getting overwhelmed. Saving the lives of older and more vulnerable people is the secondary purpose. I listened to a very interesting radio programme the other day where they were talking about the death rates from coronavirus. They said a year's worth was being seen in a month but the majority of those would have died during the year anyway because of their age and conditions. Of course, that was before the announcement of the deaths of two doctors this week and as more medics and those without underlying conditions die the more the stats will change. It's the old adage; lies, da...d lies and statistics!
|
|
|
Covid
Mar 30, 2020 15:25:02 GMT
Post by bms on Mar 30, 2020 15:25:02 GMT
I read Dr Lee’s article (thanks for sharing Wimbo) - it certainly does raise so many issues but nearly all of them are either unintentional or unfortunately omitted. And no surprise that it was The Spectator that chose to publish it.
I have no doubt that there are very valid arguments about the identification of, and reporting of, death rates. Implicit in Dr Lee’s argument is the exact severity of Covid19 and the extent to which Governments’ response should be to restrict freedom. But I also think there are significant truths about this virus that Dr Lee has chosen to, shall I say, understate, or omit.
Yesterday, Amged El-Hawrani, a 55yr old ENT consultant, and Adil El Tayar, a 63yr old organ transplant specialist, became the first UK health workers to die from Covid19. But of course this pattern of deaths began with the first Wuhan doctors who tried in vain to simultaneously whistle blow and fight the initial outbreak. Four days ago, 41 Italian health workers had died from exposure to Covid19 - that figure will have already risen.
Dr El Tayar had spent the last few days volunteering to fight the outbreak in an A+E dept in the West Midlands. I’d like to think that Dr Lee, with all that experience and knowledge might be doing just the same, and for all I know, he is or will be one of the many retired health professionals who are/will be returning to help fight this pandemic. After all, he claims ‘...we have yet to see any statistical evidence for excess deaths, in any part of the world’. I wonder how that observation has gone down with the families of all the recently departed Health workers in the world, and those that are showing the bravery to don what little protective equipment there appears to be when working with infected patients on a daily basis?
Yes, most of those infected will recover fully, many will be asymptomatic, and so on. But the uncomfortable truth about Covid19 is that it can be a vicious and random killer, and not just of the elderly and those with ‘underlying health’ conditions.
I’d suggest The Spectator has welcomed such an article from a respectable source because it suggests some degree of overreaction on the part of this and other Governments around the world.
The Spectator’s agenda is one of Freedom - that is the freedom to trade and acquire wealth and privilege and to oppose what it sees as unnecessary regulation, control, taxation and god forbid, state intervention or control. Indeed, it was until so recently so pleased with itself, having catapulted its very own darling of contributors, Mr B Johnson, into Downing Street armed with a massive majority. It was one of the so called respectable periodicals that so enjoyed sticking the boot into ‘experts’, the civil service, the judiciary, the BBC, MPs who opposed Brexit and a variety of former prime ministers and senior figures, promoted the demonisation of migrant workers, so many of whom have understandably left the NHS or care services and returned home.
So imagine its horror when its hero announced to the nation last week that serious restrictions on liberty were to be introduced. The Telegraph further distinguished itself by announcing ‘End of Freedom’. Worse, policies of state intervention and expenditure, far more radical than those of the devil himself, one Jeremy Corbyn, were to be immediately introduced. Experts were now not only back in fashion, they were revered and their very word was driving Government policy and intervention. Civil servants were in fact now marvellous, as were all public servants, and so on. And as for the NHS, mere deification was selling it short.
So much is still unknown about Covid19. But there is one salient uncomfortable truth - it is spread by people. Consequently, if you restrict movement and contact, the virus cannot spread further. It is as simple as that. Not a cure of course, but simply a reduction in transmission. I for one have no problem in conforming with that reality because I fear for more vulnerable members of our society, including my son who suffers from CF, and I judge that consequences of our incarceration to be worth it in the short term because it will inevitably reduce the numbers of cases arriving at hospitals, and consequently the numbers of deaths of both patients and NHS workers. To this end, I for one wholly support a certain Mr Johnson (solely on this issue!)
Many have expressed valid concerns about the trade off between lock down and economic damage. To a lesser extent, the Entitled are taking to the airwaves to express their horror about not being allowed to go the pub, the Lake District and so on. My concern about Dr Lee’s article, and the intentions of the publisher, is that it seeks to slightly undermine the current cohesion around isolation and distancing.
On a related matter, I was astonished to learn that those returning to the UK at Heathrow yesterday were neither tested on entry nor required to isolate for a given period. The flight in question was from New York which I believe to has a a significant number of infected residents. Is it me?
|
|
|
Covid
Mar 30, 2020 16:45:51 GMT
Post by biscot boy on Mar 30, 2020 16:45:51 GMT
One thing is certain. Covid 19 will never survive in the Gents toilets at Kenilworth Road.
|
|
|
Covid
Mar 30, 2020 16:54:23 GMT
Post by bms on Mar 30, 2020 16:54:23 GMT
One thing is certain. Covid 19 will never survive in the Gents toilets at Kenilworth Road. 😀
|
|